Friday, November 7, 2008

Blog Discussion Assignment No. 3 Nov. 7 to Nov. 14

We have been discussing in class the "missional church" and the use of Strengths and Spiritual Gifts. To begin our discussion this week, consider the following questions:

1) How do you believe members view "evangelism" in a typical congregation and the way a truly "missional" church 's members would view "evangelism"? Explain why you think this.
2) What difference does it make if members know what their spiritual gifts and strengths are? Why would this be true?
3) The Gallop organization has found that postmodern individuals who engage in service to others first ( have meaningful experiences) using their strengths and gifts are several times more likely to pray, read the bible, give financially, etc. Why do you believe this is true? What are the implications of this for evangelism?

Note: As before, you don't have to answer every question, but do have to engage in the discussion. I particularly would like you to discuss these questions with each other this week. Please ask each other questions you might have--- particularly as the above issues might affect how you go about work in your hometown.

53 comments:

leenette said...

With regards to my strength finder and spiritual evaluation result, I think it will do more good on my part knowing that I possess those things. It will give me more confidence when I face the people. I can also think of other ways to enhance and nourished those gifts so that I can also share to others what I’ve learned. I believe that the result really tells the true me that I sometimes ignore. Just like what I’ve said in the class before that I am really wasn’t aware that I do have those gifts. But now that I know them, I can use those gifts that God had given me to help others and to improve myself even better.

jose said...

I'm responding to the 2nd question about what difference does it make whether you know what your spiritual gifts are or not and why?
This past week learning about my own spiritual gifts has opened my eyes like you wouldn't believe. I've often heard people talk of their gifts and thought I don't have any so I can't offer anything. Talk about making yourself feel useless. Just knowing what my strengths are and gifts has help me see where I can go in God's kingdom to give others the best of my abilities. It's helped me see where the need is and where I'm best suited to work. I want to use what God has blessed me with and in turn bless others with his love and beauty. I'm really grateful.

Lynn S. Nored said...

To leenette,jose, and all:
Great!. I am going to leave this blog up for more discussions with you later after the class is over( though after the class is over I will probably delete the previous posts and comments). One thing I hope to do is to discuss further with you the implications and opportunities that your particular gifts and strengths enable you to do.

Anonymous said...

4.6,32 Mercy
- you are a good judges of character
- Are able to understand different personality types
- Are aware of things that go on under the surface in people and situations
- Can quickly recognize authenticity and see through falsity
- Can sense the Spirit’s working (forces of good) and Satan’s attacks (forces of evil)

4.6,32 Helping
- Are friendly and able to interact with people comfortably
- Like to meet and greet new people and have “never met a stranger”
- Are willing to open up their home to local and traveling members, visitors, and neighbors, perhaps even for extended amounts of time
- Enjoy putting together social parties and get togethers
- Have a strong desire and ability to make strangers and visitors feel welcome.

You might also consider your next three Spiritual Gifts
4.4,32 Prayer
- Have a good understanding of biblical concepts and passages, and can make them understandable to others
- Are good at leading biblical discussions, asking questions that engage people and help them understand Scripture
- Can provide verbal and hands-on examples to illustrate and convey God’s truths
- Are looked up for their way of life, which is centered around God and Christ
- Help others develop good spiritual habits and life skills
4.1,31 Discernment
- Have an unshakeable trust in God’s power and love which they can help others to see
- Are not dismayed when situations look bleak, believing that “all things work together towards the good for those who love the Lord”
- Believe that things happen for a reason and that God is active in the world
- Are bold in their prayer life, asking God for things which only he could make possible
- See no challenge as insurmountable, and set very high spiritual, financial, and relational goals
4.0,29 Hospitality
- Are able to make good choices when faced with multiple paths
- Others seek them out when faced with difficult choices
- Live good lives, filled with humility, self-control, and dependence upon God
- Can help bring peace to situations through their insight
- Are able to objectively differentiate between competing pathways or points of view.

jose said...

The experiences I have had, see the meaning of evangelism in church today as 'door knocking' or trying to get up Bible studies with anyone who will listen. Sometimes I see us as pushey salemen. It seems to be a cold approach in the sense we're trying to tick the numbers over but forgetting the realness of why we're doing this. But missional evangelism to me is being in the community getting along side people and just living the word before them. Letting them into our lives and visa versa. If you want to know their story get involved in their lives. Eventually, they'll come to you. They can't help it they'll want to know your story too. Then it seems to progress from there. What do the rest of you think?

Lynn S. Nored said...

To Jose and All:

The approaches of door knocking and cold approaches worked when most of the community were "Christian" in some way. They do not work well at all in the postmodern community.

You are on the right track in what you say you would do today.

Unknown said...

Now we are know our gifts (people in the class know) but some of our members did not know about their gifts...

i think the people should open up and seriously try to find their gifts by getting the chance to work the things that they think they could do or try the new things if it is not that is ok and keep finding our own gifts...and also people should allow the rest of the member to be a part of the misnistry and that will help them to find their own gifts.

If they know their own gifts they should put into the ministry and use their gift that God gives it to them in God's will but somebody does not use it and God will take it back but some uses it God will bless them..along to that line, we should give the oppotunities to the member of the church for using their gifts

Professor, can you explain question 1 and 3 please?sorry i don't understand those questions..please sorry about that!

Anonymous said...

Particularly in many Churches of Christ that have missionaries working for them, a lot of Christians can become VERY lazy with their evangelism. I have come across people with the spiritual gift of evangelism who can bash people extensively those who are not evangelizing – not what should be done! While not all people have the spiritual gift, it is important that we all participate in the building of God’s Kingdom

Anonymous said...

Using your strengths to serve others first takes you out of the centre, it takes away selfishness. To grow in one’s spiritual relationship with God, one needs to become more and more selfless looking for the chance to help others.

Anonymous said...

Great to hear Jose

Anonymous said...

i found it encouraging also to see how all of my spiritual gifts and strengths 'meshed' together.

ChiangmaiLover said...

According to No. 2

It will make a huge different if the church members know about their gifts. I think the church will grow more and it would be easier (I think) to preach the gospel to others. For example; some of the members are very good in speaking in public but they might not know about it or they don't have a heart to do it. I think if we only know our spiritual gifts but we don't have a heart for it then it would not work. NOw I know what my spiritual gifts are and some of them I like to do but some are not. I think i'll do well with what I like to do.

Lynn S. Nored said...

Amy:

Question one has two different parts. 1) How do you believe members in your congregatio view evangelism? This means how do people in your congregation individually think and go about evangelism? Do they think it is up to the minister? Do they think evangelism is just door knocking and a "bible study" as Jose discusses. Do they think evangelism is done by getting people to come to church? 2) In the second part of the question I am asking you what are the actions members should take if they are a "missional" church and how should they think about evangelism?

For question 3: I am asking why would it be true that members are more likely to read their bibles, pray, give more, etc. if they "serve others" using their gifts? Another way to ask this is to ask why people will give more, stury more, pray more, if they do meaningful service ( experiences) rather than just setting in bible classes.

Lynn S. Nored said...

Note to All: In this blog assignment, I want you to discuss these questions with each other--or ask any question you would like.

I am going to listen and answer any direct questions you might have for me. But, I want you to talk to each other first.
Tks

Lynn S. Nored said...

Opps.

Annie I intended the explanations of questions 1) and 3) be in answer to your question, but inadvertendly addressed my answer to Amy. My apologies to both of you.
Tks

Anonymous said...

Amy:



1) my chruch do not do door nocking and i didnt hear mucha bout bible studies. In my chruch with is a mission focus chruch they see the needs in the comunitey and try to fillful them. They make relationships and also do a lot of belovenent work and mission work there is alot of things going on that members of the chruch form the ministry is called team leader and he and the oversight team - elders i gess look over things an see if it meet what the chruch is about and them let them do there own thing having nothing ales to do with it about from cheeking in every know then to encourage the person and there mininstry.
2)As far as i know evenglisem in my chruch is un limited to how chruch that they believe it is every bodys job to save some and find the lost sheep. When i say not limited it deependes on that persons gift in order to evanglize each person will equip there methods to bring the lost to better understaing of who jesus is and what he has to offer them. At the beggining it is all about friendship and making sure you are good example to non christain and then it progresses on as the relationship does. chruch is one of the last things that they will be thinking about when they evenglise to someone just being there friend and talking is first and most important after some time then talking about death and heaven and the bible and what they mean and how there lives have been changed by God is talked about then maybe chruch but this is not common.

Anonymous said...

3. I think this is because, they can relate and there emotional side is triged that is why pentercostel chruch play soft emotional music before auter call or offering to tricker in your mind this emotional conection. But i also think that making the person be more involved in chruch lets them know they are importaint and not a other number or filler in a pew. They feel conected and wont to help keep this conection and commuintey so they give more to help and see the need to pray and read there bible more. to keep up with everyone ales.

Anonymous said...

when each person know there gift the chruch works like a suped up car with eight gears and shinny mages. Each one know's wahts waht and how they can get best worship for Gods glory. It is quite amazing watching this before eyes. the chruch helps each other carry the load and help the whole thing work. If they know they do not have strenght or gift in one of the other areas they know someone who does and can do a really good job of completing the task a head. in my mind it is saving time, getting best result and better quiltey to serve God.

Anonymous said...

when each person know there gift the chruch works like a suped up car with eight gears and shinny mages. Each one know's wahts waht and how they can get best worship for Gods glory. It is quite amazing watching this before eyes. the chruch helps each other carry the load and help the whole thing work. If they know they do not have strenght or gift in one of the other areas they know someone who does and can do a really good job of completing the task a head. in my mind it is saving time, getting best result and better quiltey to serve God.

Anonymous said...

to jose: i agree that door nocking and bible studies comes off that way but this is not the only way think out side the box. think about waht type of person you would like yo reach out to and mold your aproch to there world view with out compermising christain values. how would you do this ? what sort of person do you wont to reach out to ??

Anonymous said...

I am answering question 1 .I believe the typical congregation expects the church to do the evangleising imparticular the minister or heads of the missions.The Idea being that the events of the church will attract the people, of course as you said Professsor Nored that the assumtion is that the comunity is christian any way and there for would be atracted to the best church as such. The truly missional church however would view evangelism with the idea that that we need to Go out to the world, build relationships, let our lights shine for Jesus by leting our words be sincere and what we say we mean.The reasons for thinking this would be that the church at the moment is very self focused almost as if it is a club to which member need to jion . Misssional camps and other things are all organised for the church congregation where the congregation are happey and safe to pass the work of evanglising on to some one else but like the great commision in Matthew 28 Jesus says GO and make disiples not make a nice place and wait they will come to you. If we take a look at satistics the average church in Nz is declineing by 2.5 % per annium so we can see we do not have our views on evanglisem right yet

Anonymous said...

this is in answer to question 2.It makes a differance if members know what the spiritual gifts and strenghts are because they are able to focus on them and polish the diamond as such and when the body starts to function it gets to a piont that we don't just have a hand or leg but we have a good hand and leg, and in so the whole body ends up being the best it can be. If I am trying to do every thing in the church saome areas will be neglected as I will consentrate onj the things I enjoy better, also I will have less time for each thing if I am trying to do all so for people to consentrate on what they are good at and be trusted to do their part frees me up to do what I am good at and to polish may own gifts as such

Anonymous said...

I was just looking though some of the comments on these subjects and I have to say that the people of the congregations are very nice peoiple who would do all they could to reach out to you being part of the comunity and even as a new person to the church or a friend of some member who came with them to church but as for developing relationships with non christians who they do not know I'm not so sure I see alot of that happening.

Anonymous said...

In answer to question 3 individuals who engage in service to others first and there fore have meaningful experiances using their gifts are more likley to pray, read the bible, give financily,etc because they get more out of it.If you go to church get the message and go home but never put it to practice you won't in gage in the other things as well how ever if find your gift5 you use your gift because you get confidence in the fact you have the gift and so to speak start to fight on the front line and then you start to see results, the more confident you get the more trust in you ablity the more resurch, the more faith in God the more commitment to God happens.

jose said...

I think some of you have misread what I said about door knocking and Bible studies. Amy I did not mean that I agree with these method in fact I'm very much opposed to this kind of evangelism. I believe we have out grown these ways. As far as thinking out side the box - the second or last part of my comment was directed at how I think we should evangelize today. I hope you understand what I mean.

jose said...

Paul: I've been reflecting on your comments to question 1 and I like what you've said about the church leaving it to the minister or heads of ministries. I believe thats whats happening too. The thing is if we keep thinking like that - leaving it up to others then no evangelizing will get done. It's a no wonder the membership of the church has dropped. Your comment about the church becoming self focused made sense it is in my experience like a club. In the 2 years I've been here we have had 1 outsider baptized in whom we hardly see anymore and 2 children(12yr olds)from families within the church baptized. Not really a great
evangelizing effort from us. Thats why it good learning all of this information in order to understand what it is we need to do to get back on the right track of bringing people to God. And being "real" about it.

Anonymous said...

Questions for all/any to answer:

What are the most successful forms of evangelism today? Why?
Should we jettison the church completely? What use is there having a 'church'
where should we be using our spiritual gifts and why?

Lynn S. Nored said...

To all: I have been reading all comments at least twice or more per day.

Regarding Cam's question about "church", you might define what "church" means in this question and how Cam is using "church" before addressing the questions.

Anonymous said...

In response to question 2, I believe that it would make a huge difference for members to know what their spiritual gifts and strengths are. This is because they can then channel their energy into ministries or areas that they are naturally able to succeed in. This will mean that people will be working for the Lord more effectively, more will be coming to know Christ, others will be encouraged and the church in general will be fulfilling its potential. Imagine how amazing this would be!!

Anonymous said...

Regarding question 3, I think this would be the case because post-modern individuals are all about 'experiencing' things. When one actually experiences what it's like to live as a Christian, and the joy that comes from serving others and living as Christ did, then they will want to follow Christianity more closely. Therefore, they will be more willing to spend time studying the Scriptures, praying and supporting organisations that align with their experiences.

Unknown said...

according to your clarify the questions for me

i think no much members of the church that do the evangelism some of them thought that is the job for the one who work full time

but we all have to help each other to evangelist for the people in the world

Aimee Smith said...

I agree with the General sway of thought in regard to question two - about what difference it makes knowing your gifts and strengths. I think we are more likely to use our gifts and strengths in a constuctive manner not only within the church community, but particularily in the wider community where a greater impact can be made in evangelising. Knowing what specifically my gifts and strengths are now, I am thinking of many different ways I can use them to show Jesus to the greater community and to others I know (christian or not). I am also thinking of ways I can implement them quite practically in the workplace, study, friendships, ministry, relationships, etc. I really agree with Jose - It has also made me see where the need is and and where I am best suited to work. (I also find knowing my strngths/gifts helps to brighten my natural pessimism and lessen my focus on the negatives)

Unknown said...

To joe, I agree with you on question 2. It's nice to know what your gifts are, and now we know what they are, we can use the for God.

Aimee Smith said...

Cameron: I agree - church of christ is exceptionally lazy at evangelism.

I find in a non-missional church the mindset about evangelism is "its for extroverts, ministers and aim/him workers" (I kid you not - I have heard this said). There is a laten fear of evangelism. Admittedly, I fear evangelism in the form of door-knocking and confrontation, which seems to be the style developed in the Modern church structure. The missional church mindset (as far as I can gather) seems to not only be open about evangelism, but seems to invite and actively pursue people in a non-confrontationl, non-shove-it-down-your-throat way. They appear to view evangelism as the role of every person who is a disciple of Christ, but do not conform evangelism to the one pattern. Disciples are encouraged to evangelise in the way that best suits their personality, temperament, strengths and gifts - for instance, frienship evangelism. If you are a quiter, introverted person, make friends with people and live CHrist to them. Speak to them about Christ, but still be their friend even if tehy do not want to believe - they may one day. and i think i want off the point some time ageo, but thats ok!

Unknown said...

To Nick, you are totally right concerning question 2. We can now work for the Lord more effectively.

Anonymous said...

to Aimee and others. why do you think that the chruch of christ are so lazy in enanglisem?

Aimee Smith said...

Question 3 is a little confusing to me, so thanx professor for clarifying it to annie - it helped me too! (see, you never know when helping one will help many!)

My answer to it:
I think that it is true that members would be more likely to pray, read the scriptures and contribute, etc. But i also think that it largely depends on the person. Someone who truly wants to do the will of God, and is dedicated to being a disciple will DEFINITELY increase in such areas, where as a more apathetic "pew warmer" may be entirely uninterested and not do anything (yes, i realise these are broad generalisations, and that there are exceptions to the rule).

Unknown said...

To Leenette, you are so right we can use our gitfs to help others come to God. We need to be the good servant and use our talents, not to hide them.

Aimee Smith said...

to amy:

In answer to your question: because so many are stuck in the modernist mindset, particularily older leaders stuck in their ways, and spread the idea that the way to evangelise is confrontational, dunk-em-ASAP, and basically in a manner that many consider greatly against who they are (causing great levels of fear because of confrontation). Due to this fear many have cut back evangelism to letter-boxing, which in western society is completely useless. They've become lazy because they fear it and don't want to confron, don't think they can or think letter-boxing is evangelism.

Aimee Smith said...

I have a question for the professor and another for Everyone:

Professor:
Why do you think that many Churches have become lazy about evangelism?

Everyone:
How do you think church members knowing their strengths and gifts can help reduce the fear of evangelism motivate them to evangelise?

Unknown said...

To Joe, you are right concerning door knocking it does come across as being pushey. I like the new way of doing it, that is building a relationship first, and working in the community. Showing your faith with your works.

Unknown said...

To Cam the man, it might be true that some people are lazy when it comes to evangelism. But I also believe people dont no how to, or hav'nt been shown, or dont know their talent.

jose said...

That's a really good question Aimee. Not one that's easy to answer. As for myself, I don't know that knowing my spiritual gifts is going to reduce my fear and motivate me to go out and evangelise. I guess what I'd do is look to my strengths and use them to try to connect with that person. For example I'm strong on empathy and mercy which are similar in a sense so I'd try to connect with a certain situation in that persons life and go from there. I hope you understand what I mean.

Anonymous said...

Corn Dogg - I don't think that we're necessarily lazy when it comes to evangelism. But I do think that it has been extremely under emphasised in recent times, so people either don't know how to do it because they're not taught how, or people aren't even aware of the need to do it. We need to seek to teach others more about evangelism and the importance of it, and hopefully it will rub off.

Lynn S. Nored said...

To All: Great discussion among those participating.

To Aimee: Why I do think that churches have become lazy about evangelism.

During the late 1950's to the early 1980's the emphasis in the churches of Christ was on conducting Home Bible Studies. Of course this was a "modern era" with the emphasis on propositional truth and reason. Most in the U.S. believed in the bible and would study.

In the early 1980's the emphasis shifted to creating "ministries" in the congregations --especially in urban and suburban areas. These ministries, though good within themselves, tended to focus on things the members themselves needed--education, youth, children's ministries, men and womens ministries, etc. Increasing these congregations began hiring pulpit ministers who were excellent speakers and coordinators of "staff" to man these ministries. Slowly, the emphasis died on reaching out to those that were not Christians.

During this same time the "baby boom" generation began to come to the forefront. They were of the "modern" worldview and demanded excellence in the worship service and in all phases of public gatherings. This in itself fostered professionalism. The "community church" movement with the success of Saddleback in California and Willow Creek in Illinois also enhanced this movement towards a "seeker" type service. This meant that evangelism was relegated to the "worship" service and/or professionals.

Of course during the time frame from 1980 on postmodern thought and worldviews were increasingly gaining ground. This also meant that those that still tried to do "home bible studies" on the old paradigm were not very successful.

Therefore, to summarize, I would suggest the following led to the church becoming lazy:

1) The shift to ministries serving the members of the church instead of serving the community
2) The shift to use of professional staff and "senior" ministers
3) The demand for the baby boomer generation for professionalism and excellence in worship and/or any gathering of the church
4) The changing of the worship service for Christians to be a "seeker" service for the unchurched
5) The changing of worldviews from the modern to the postmodern
and 6) The above leading to a lack of success of methods used in the modern era.

Finally, the real cause is a lack of leadership by both elders and ministers to understand and change methods ( not doctrine) and approaches with the changes in society. The mentality was: if we will on "do church better" we will growth. The reason for this lack of leadership in my view is a basic lack of understanding of the theological reason for the church and its basic mission.

Anonymous said...

Aimee - that's a real interesting question. I tend to agree with Jose, I don't think it will necessarily reduce one's fear of evangelism. In that area we just need to draw on God's strength and trust Him to put opportunities our way and to give us teh courage to say and do what needs to be said and done. However, it is helpful to know how we can be of most use, and if we get to know what each other's gifts are, then we can call on others to help in areas that they might be gifted in and that we're not as strong in.

leenette said...

God gives us this gifts not for our own benefit but he wants us to use this gift to help others.

to aimee's question:
I think that it will help me gain more confidence in the area where I am good at. The best way to develop gifts is to fan them into flame and use them.

leenette said...

I think that almost everyone of us is still scared to evangelize in front of many people but practice makes perfect and most of all we need to trust God.

Anonymous said...

i gree with Cameron comment that people become lazy to evangelist and they might think that it's not their job, someone who work fulltime that is the one has to do it and then they become lazy

Anonymous said...

we are right that we should encourage people in the church to use their gifts and give them the change to use their gift...the gift is being used!

Terence, i agree about building relationship first it is important because that make them open more and then we will put the seed in their heart!

Anonymous said...

question #1
i think most churches view evangelism as door knoking and letter boxing or having some convention at the church for the community. and i think that the thruly missional church would really go out there to the needy unafraid of getting their hands "dirty" truly loving and seeking the bests for the lost.
i think this of both of these because this is what i have witnessed and its hard to deny what your eyes have seen after all actions do speak lauder then words

Anonymous said...

question#2
i have just finished doing my spiritual gifts and i think that it would make a big difference if the church members knew what their spiritual gifts were. because i think that if we have a goal to head towards, an understanding we would be more likely to put them into practise

Anonymous said...

question#3
i believe that this is true because if the are serving by useing their spiritual gifts then they are or one would believe already a more spiritualy inclined people so of corse the would pray more and read the bible more. this would be good for evangelism becasue the would be more ingrossed with a spiritual life and more inclined to live what they were preaching therefore being far more secsessful at evangelism. living what we preach is how others know what we believe is true